Rockets' lament
What's a wrestling season without controversy? Well, for Jefferson-Morgan, it was an unpleasant night against Derry in a Section 2-AA match. Here's how J-M coach Scott Rhodes explained it. At weigh-ins for Tuesday match, Derry's Dave Burrows weighed in at 130 pounds but competed at 140 against Nathan Elkins, one weight class higher than he was allowed to wrestle. The mistake was not discovered until after the match and Burrows was forced to forfeit to Elkins. That still gave Derry a 36-30 win but a question was raised about whether the dual meet should have been forfeited to the Rockets because of the use of Burrows at the wrong weight class.
The WPIAL told Rhodes that the match Burrows competed in had to be forfeited but the dual meet did not have to be forfeited to the Rockets. That was crucial because if Derry had forfeit the dual meet, a three-way tie would have been created in the section and the chances are Derry would not have the third seed in the WPIAL Class AA Team Tournament when the pairings are released today.
What might have tripped up Derry coach Mike Wood was the two-pound allowance that's permitted at this point in the season. For Burrows to compete at 140, he had to weigh in above 132 pounds, not 130. The rules allow a wrestler to compete at the weight he weighs in at or the next highest weight. Rhodes wanted a share of the section title for his surprising Rockets, who clinched a berth in the team tournament with a win over Beth-Center Wednesday night.
The WPIAL told Rhodes that the match Burrows competed in had to be forfeited but the dual meet did not have to be forfeited to the Rockets. That was crucial because if Derry had forfeit the dual meet, a three-way tie would have been created in the section and the chances are Derry would not have the third seed in the WPIAL Class AA Team Tournament when the pairings are released today.
What might have tripped up Derry coach Mike Wood was the two-pound allowance that's permitted at this point in the season. For Burrows to compete at 140, he had to weigh in above 132 pounds, not 130. The rules allow a wrestler to compete at the weight he weighs in at or the next highest weight. Rhodes wanted a share of the section title for his surprising Rockets, who clinched a berth in the team tournament with a win over Beth-Center Wednesday night.
posted by Joe Tuscano at
11:18 PM
8 Comments:
"The rules allow a wrestler to compete at the weight he weighs in at or the next highest weight." WRONG!
The rules allow a wrestler to compete at the weightclass he WEIGHS or at the next higher weight.
The weightclass he weighs-in at is irrelevant.
The wrestler in question:
weighed 130.8
eligible for 130 pounds (including 2-pound allowance)
eligible for 135 pounds (one weightclass above his weighin WEIGHT).
One more thing, the dual meet is not being forfeited, and, since the error wasn't discovered prior to the beginning of the next bout, the BOUT isn't being forfeited either.
The dual meet final score IS 39-24 Derry.
What's the difference? If he weighs 130.8, he can't weigh in at 125, right? And he can't weigh in at 135 because he needs to be at 132.1 to do that. What he weighs, puts him in a weight class. According to the WPIAL, the bout was forfeited. He was ineligible to wrestle at the weight, making it a forfeit. I never said the dual meet was forfeited.
You're right. Weighing 130.8, he cannot weighin at 125.
You're wrong. Weighing 130.8, he CAN weighin for 135.
What he weighs determines the minimum weight at which he is eligible to compete in that event. It also determines the maximum weight at which he is eligible to compete in that event.
What weightclass he weighs in for can change the MINIMUM weight at which he can compete, but not the MAXIMUM weight.
The rulebook says this error was a correctable scoring error, one which must be dealt with prior to the start of the next bout, or the scoring stands as determined at the conclusion of the bout in question.
Therefore, correctly, there is no forfeit. There is no changed score. Derry 39, Jeff-Morgan 24.
That's the rules. That's the facts.
The only time an error needs to be corrected before the next bout is if you would need more wrestling. And this was the LAST bout of the night, so your argument is way off base. Did you know that JM actually won the bout against the ineligible wrestler? I bet not because you got the score wrong with that anyway.
The point is coaches need to more aware of the situation. That wrestler was presented at 130 at weigh ins. There is no way the coach made the mistake, he should have been disciplined.
Since my rule book is a few years old, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, despite what 6 head coaches, two referees and a steering committee member told me. What you are saying is that you can use an ineligible wrestler, on purpose or by mistake, and not be sanctioned for it? That if that wrestler wins a bout that he did not qualify to compete in, he gets a victory to his record that might give him a better seed over another wrestler in the postseason tournament, and that he might help his team win a dual meet that may or may not affect the pairings of the team tournament? That's what you're saying?
I gotta get an up-to-date rule book.
BTW, it wasn't a scoring error. It was the use of an ineligible wrestler.
Doesn't have anything to do with this arguement, but Scott Rhodes should be O-R coach of the year. He has done a great job.
Dave Burrows weighed in with the 130 pounders. He could wrestle there, or at 135 period.
Technically, it was a scoring error and can be corrected IF the proper personnel were still at the mat.
The correction is simply changing the result from an Elkins decision to a forfeit win. Add 3 more points to the JM total, making the final 36-30 (IF the correction was made at the time).
Otherwise, the anonymous post about no change at all is correct. It cannot be changed the next day, even if there was no additional wrestling necessary.
Joe, yes, if in the course of events, an inelgible wrestler competes and it is not discovered until additional action had taken place, it stands.
Sounds odd, but that's the way it is. That stands in direct contrast to the use of an ineligible pitcher in baseball (Peters vs. North Hills in '07 playoffs--forfeit the game).
And it IS, officially, a scoring error. The wrestler was an eligible contestant, just not at that weight.
Yes, and that's also why the dual meet is not forfeited because the wrestler was eligible to compete. I understand, though, that had the wrestler been ineligible at school: grades, suspension, etc., that the dual meet would be forfeited if he competed. But I'm not sure if that's a school-by-school decision or PIAA rule.
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